00:00:00
Raquel Baldelomar
Hi everyone, and welcome to The Mega Podcast. My name is Raquel Baldelomar, where I interview high achievers on how they fulfill their professional dreams while maintaining balance throughout their lives. Today I am with Dr. Simran Singh. Simran is the Executive Director of Religion and Society Program at the Aspen Institute, and he is author of the book, the Light We Give, How Sikh Wisdom Can Transform Your Life. Published by Riverhead Books in 2022, an Imprint of Penguin Random House. Simran is an internationally recognized scholar and human rights activist, teacher, author, and columnist with hundreds of thousands of followers across social media. And his latest book, the Light We Give. This is the book right here. Read it all this weekend. It was great. Uh, in the book, he invites readers to embrace the lessons he's learned as a self-proclaimed brown skin, turban wearing beard loving sports playing dude.
00:00:55
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
00:00:55
Raquel Baldelomar
trying to survive in modern America. He talks about the wisdom he gained from being a practicing Sikh who's trying to find common ground with others and bring a fresh perspective to how we can cultivate empathy and fight racism. Simran was born and raised in Texas, my hometown from 10 years old, and he is the son of Indian immigrants. He graduated from Trinity University in San Antonio, then attended Harvard Divinity School and got his PhD at Columbia University. Throughout those years, Simran has confronted racism, bullying, and ethnic slurs. Yet instead of growing bitter or angry, he drew from sikh teachings to seek out the good, to seek out the good in every situation, and find positive ways to direct his energy. What started, as a matter of survival has become a calling. Simran currently lives in New York City and is married with two children. He balances his professional life with a love of sports and is a huge San Antonio Spurs fan. Simran, welcome to the Mega podcast.
00:01:53
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Thank you. Thanks for having me, and thanks for mentioning the Spurs. That's so important to me.
00:01:56
Raquel Baldelomar
How are they doing?
00:01:57
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Horribly . How are they really? They're not, they're not good right now, but they were good for about the first almost three decades of my life. So it's, yeah
00:02:06
Raquel Baldelomar
I grew up in Texas too. I grew up in Texas at Fort Worth, Texas from 10 years old until 22 when, you know, when I grad through college. Yeah. And the Spurs were killing it while we were, while I was there. .
00:02:17
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
It's fun. It was a fun few decades, and then now I'm sad
00:02:20
Raquel Baldelomar
Now living in la you kind of like, when people, you know, mention when I say I kind of, you know, I follow the Spurs, they look at me. You're like, what? You're not a Lakers fan. Right,
00:02:27
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Right. Exactly. Exactly. It's, it's a tough territory over here.
00:02:30
Raquel Baldelomar
What was it like growing up in San Antonio?
00:02:34
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
You know, for those who are looking at me, uh, you might imagine that my life was terrible and, and I would say actually it wasn't. And that's so important for me to share right off the bat that, you know, in spite of how I look and in spite of the racism that I experienced, um, my life wasn't defined by the racism that I dealt with. I mean, there were moments, uh, they were hard, they were different from what most of my other friends experienced, uh, but in, in a lot of ways my life was so normal. Right. I had neighbors and friends and teammates and class. I mean, so happy. I have three brothers. We were outside all the time, riding bikes, playing sports. I mean, very normal in a lot of ways. And then the part that I guess is interesting to a lot of people, but I never really thought it was strange, um, was the racism we dealt with daily. And that comes with, you know, in the form of looks that we got from people on the street, things people would say to us, uh, threats, you know, got pretty serious. But in, in a way it was also part of our normal lives. Like, it was just you. You live it every day and you normalize it.
00:03:42
Raquel Baldelomar
You mentioned in an NBC interview, you said that you were the only turban family living in San Antonio at that time.
00:03:49
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Yeah, yeah, that's right. All in all of South Texas actually.
00:03:52
Raquel Baldelomar
Really? Yeah. Really. So people really must have just, you know, you you, did you feel as a young kid, you know, you, you grew up, you were actually born in Texas, right? You were born in the United States.
00:04:03
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
00:04:04
Raquel Baldelomar
So you, you, you know, you, you mentioned in your book about living between two worlds and never feeling belonging to either as part of your parents
00:04:13
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Yeah.
00:04:13
Raquel Baldelomar
Inherited experience.
00:04:15
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
It's so funny because, you know, part of, part of what I've mentioned in that part of the book is, uh, how strange it is when people tell me to go back to where I came from. I mean, it happens now still. Wherever I live in New York City, now I'm in LA with you today, people will still say, go back to where you came from. And I don't think they expect me to, to ask them about Texas, if it's, that's what they mean. Um, but it's, it is such a strange experience to grow up in this world where you feel like an insider. I mean, I felt Texan and I felt American. I mean, I was born and raised there, and that's the home I knew. And yet people on the street would see me as foreign. I mean, wherever I went, I was perpetually foreign.
And even today, you know, the moment I opened my mouth and they hear that I have an American accent, people are surprised. Mm-hmm.
, if I can speak English right. People are surprised. I mean, it just happened to me yesterday on the airplane, really, that someone was surprised that I spoke English. I mean, it's, it's just these funny little things that reveal to you what people's assumptions are. But as a kid especially, and even now, um, it's hard not to internalize those assumptions. And, and you start wondering yourself, well, do I really belong here? And in some ways I feel like the answer is yes, and it will always be yes. Like this is my home. And on the other hand, given how sometimes I'm mistreated and the dangers that I face just looking the way I do in this country, I know the answer is always no. At the same time. Like, there's never, I mean, at least not in my imagination, it's hard to imagine a time when I will be fully accepted as an American like everyone else. So that's, that's kind of a weird, a weird place to be like, I'm from here and I'm not.
00:05:56
Raquel Baldelomar
It's like, it's like being in a space between two spaces. I mean, this is your home, but still you might consider it home, but some people say this doesn't, you know, this is not your home.
00:06:05
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Yeah. So, you know, somebody, I, do a lot of facilitation around diversity and inclusion and things like that. And one of the questions I ask people is, when was the last time you felt safe mm-hmm.
. And describe to us what that feels like and where you are and what's the context? And someone flipped that on me recently and they were like, when was the last time you felt safe? And I was like, oh, I don't, I don't know if I've ever really, I mean, maybe the best answer I could come up with was on a soccer field. Like when I'm playing soccer, then I'm like doing my own thing and I don't, I forget everything else. Yeah. But, um, but I don't think I've ever really felt like I've belonged somewhere. Not, not in a true way. I mean, if I go to India, I'm, I'm not from there. I'm not safe there. Right. Like, there's actually more dangers to my life there than there are here. But I'm also not safe
00:06:54
Raquel Baldelomar
Right.
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Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Here. And I don't feel like I fully belong here either.
00:06:56
Raquel Baldelomar
A lot of people, a lot of immigrants have that same experience. Yeah. You know, where they don't feel like, you know, even what is home. Yeah. You know, and, and home should be a safe, you know, that, that safe, soft landing pad, but it never was that way for you growing up.
00:07:12
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Yeah. I mean, it's interesting cuz it, again, like my home was very comfortable growing up. My neighborhood was a safe place. Like, we were out all the time. Our parents didn't know where we were. Like, this was eighties and nineties, like no cell phones. Like, you just kind of disappear for a few hours and come back. So like in that sense, yeah, I was totally safe and I totally felt like I belonged in that small gated community. Like that's, that was it. But then the moment you step out of those bounds, you're like, people don't know me here. People will make assumptions. Like there really is no safety.
00:07:44
Raquel Baldelomar
In your book, you talk about that you were, you started, uh, people started calling you a terrorist at 11 years old.
00:07:53
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Hmm.
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Raquel Baldelomar
How does that affect your psyche to be called a terrorist at 11 years old?
00:08:00
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Well, you know, the, the funny thing at that age is, I, I didn't even know what they were saying or what they were talking on my notes. It's mm-hmm.
, not even in fifth grade, I think when it first happened. Um, I mean, I, I I knew that they meant something negative. Um, I knew that it had something to do with me looking different and then making assumptions about me. Um, I think what was more offensive in that moment actually was, um, you know, this was a soccer referee who insisted on patting down my turban, uh, you know, assuming, I mean, he said there were weapons and bombs in there. And I, I mean, that was actually more offensive to me than what he said. And I think part of it is because people had been already at that age saying all sorts of stuff to me.
But I think to, to your point about how does it affect your psyche, um, I think the challenge, especially as a young person in this country, coming from the margins and knowing that you're on the outside, right? There's no TV shows that I can look at where there are characters who look like me. There's nobody in my city who I can look up to. Uh, there's nobody on the sports teams that I watch, uh, that look like me. Like, it's just this incredible feeling of isolation. And I had my family, I had my brothers, like, we kind of had each other's backs, but this feeling of isolation of, and I didn't learn this until later, and I think this is one of the challenges of oppression of any kind. You feel like you're just the only person who understands what you're going through. And later I realized, well, other friends with other kinds of identities or experiences understood that same marginalization. But as a kid, it just feels so lonely to know that or to think that no one gets you, no one will ever get you, there's no one to talk to. Like, part of the reason I never talked to my friends about it was like, how would they understand the challenges that I go through because their lives seem carefree and without any sort of obstacle.
00:10:08
Raquel Baldelomar
Right. And how do you not let that affect your psyche? I mean, it's, it's one thing to get that at a, as a young child, young child, but then as you start to grow older and realize like, this is, you know, I cannot let this affect me negatively cuz it's gonna affect so many other areas of my life. How can you try to not let those feelings of marginalization negatively affect you?
00:10:34
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Yeah, I mean, it's, it's hard, especially, especially as a kid. I mean, part of, part of what I think was a saving grace, um, was recognizing that not every instance of someone seeing me as different was malicious. And I think that's something that we've sort of fallen into today. That anytime we are made to feel like an outsider, we assume ill intentions on the person who's raising it. And I find, and I found when I was a kid too, like a lot of times it was just curiosity and people wanting to know because they're interested and they would say, Hey, why, why do you look the way you do? Why do you wear that on your head? And as a kid, it's much easier to sort of recognize that innocuous spirit of the question and, and to engage with it. But I think today, culturally, we've really shut off to that, to a place where it becomes really uncomfortable to ask questions and also to be curious in return. And so for me, part of what, um, has protected me from always being frustrated with other people as recognizing the good intent, the recognizing the, the sincere curiosity and knowing that because somebody is asking me a question doesn't mean that they hate me or that they're judging me. They're, they're, a lot of times they're just interested. Mm-hmm.
and I, I, I feel that interest about others too in, in their own ways. And so, um, that's, that's been a really important part of what's enabled me to not get frustrated with people's questions.
00:12:14
Raquel Baldelomar
You've talked about humor being a way of how you disarm people and how you address people who are ignorant or racist. Um, I find humor such a great disarming tool. Mm-hmm.
, how do you, do you think you're just like a naturally a funny person, and uh, and do you, or do you think it's just like that you kind of use learn to just use that as you found that really worked to just kind of like ease the tension?
00:12:42
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Yeah, I mean, it's, it's interesting. Like, first of all, thanks for intimating that I'm a funny person. That's the nicest thing anyone's ever said to me. . Um, yeah. You know, I think there, there are two ways in which this cuts, uh, in terms of dealing with difficulty. Uh, one aspect of humor is really, uh, for my own internal practice and difficult situations, which is, um, in those moments when people are nasty, when it's appropriate, and when it's helpful if humor surfaces for me, like that just helps me deal with the ridiculousness of the situation. And it's not like it necessarily has to come out to somebody, but a lot of times somebody will say something super ignorant and in my head I could either get angry about how ignorant it is or I can laugh about how, and, and like, that's a really simple thing that I think I developed as a young kid. And like, sometimes it would come out as like a response. And especially when I was younger and more, um, volatile , we could say like, it would come out like in a snide or snarky way. Yeah. Right. Like somebody says something, you just say something back and it's whatever. You don't care about that person.
00:14:03
Raquel Baldelomar
Right. I love in the book how you talk about how you were playing basketball with you and your brothers and you like hiked up your basketball shorts up really high to kind of look like you guys were not that good. And then like the, these people would come in and play and they, and you just would like run circles around them. And some coach was like, man, those, those guy, those guys don't look like ballers the man, can they ball
00:14:29
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
? Yeah, exactly.
00:14:29
Raquel Baldelomar
Right. I love that. That's so funny. Those are those shows. It's just a ridiculousness of all, but it's just such a great line. it,
00:14:35
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
It really, I mean yeah. I, I mean I guess part of what you're describing there is just like self entertainment mm-hmm.
, we're not being funny to other people, but my brothers and I are like leaning into people's stereotypes mm-hmm. and assumptions mm-hmm. . Right. And just having fun with it. And like that, that was a really nice survival tactic for us when we were younger. But I think the other, the other thing about humor that's actually strategic, um, is in situations where people are being racist, sometimes you can help reveal depending on, depending on their approach and what they're saying. Like, you can reveal the inappropriate aspect or inappropriate,
00:15:22
Raquel Baldelomar
You do it in an behavior indirect way, you do it and, and it really just stops them and makes them think so much more than just trying to lecture them. It's Yeah, exactly. Such a, it's such a great tool for persuasion.
00:15:34
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Yeah. And instead of escalating a situa, you can totally diffuse it. Absolutely. And they're like, oh shit. Like, I didn't realize I was being dumb, but like, i get it.
00:15:41
Raquel Baldelomar
No, in your book you talk about, and this book, everyone, it's, it's, it's just amazing book The Light We Give How Sikh Wisdom can Transform Your Life. But one of the great stories of the book, you, you talk about how you use humor is when people would say the line to you, go back to where you came from. You would bring out this heavy Texas draw speaking in Texas. And I was like, and say something like, yeah, I'll go back to Texas. You know, and, and, and that just like completely messed with people's heads.
00:16:13
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Yeah. Confused the hell out of them. Yeah. Hilarious.
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Raquel Baldelomar
Yeah. Yeah. And then they would just walk away . And, and even in just some other, I remember there was another situation in the book where someone was, um, like you had made some sort of adjective or some name for yourself and some person was like, I can't believe you let those, that like, let that person name himself that name.
00:16:33
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Oh, the Terminator. I remember that.
00:16:35
Raquel Baldelomar
Yes. The Terminator. The Terminator. And, and, and you like basically tell that story. Yeah.
00:16:42
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Well they, it was just, I was at a, at an event and we had to come up with nicknames and I put Terminator because in the nineties that's what every E six nickname was. Right. Like, we were all the Terminator. Um, but this woman went up to one of my friends who was with me and was like, that's so offensive that you gave him that name. He's foreign. He doesn't even understand. And I was just like, what the hell? Like, you're assuming that I'm foreign again. Like, just because of how I look. So I, um, yeah, I I went up to her and gave, gave a little bit in a texan accent again. Yeah. Um, and, and, and let her know I knew what was up. Yeah.
00:17:18
Raquel Baldelomar
You gave that to yourself.
00:17:20
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
And gave that to myself. And, and mostly in that moment it was like this weirdness of this experience where like, why is this woman attacking my friend? Like, sometimes I'm not the only casualty of the racism. Right. Like, here she was going after my friend when we were just having a good normal time.
00:17:37
Raquel Baldelomar
Or, well-meaning people, people who are well-meaning, or they, they think they're being well-meaning, but then it show, you know, you, you see their racism kind of show.
00:17:46
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Right, right, right. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And then the assumptions that are baked
00:17:49
Raquel Baldelomar
Right.
00:17:49
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
To who they think I am and where I come from. So yeah. It is just a really funny moment that I had to share in the book cuz it cracks me up.
00:17:56
Raquel Baldelomar
No, it's very funny. , you're very funny. Might wanna consider a little bit of a side giggles. A as a sikh comedian, .
00:18:05
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Yeah. That would be the dream. One day.
00:18:08
Raquel Baldelomar
Talk. Let's talk about the Sikh faith a bit. A lot. I know a lot of our viewers, uh, know very little of it. I personally, you know, knew very little of it until our conversations, you know, until my research, um, it is the fifth largest religion in the world. Mm-hmm.
. Um, it's also, I love the etymology of what the word sick means. It means it's a sanscript term that means student mm-hmm. mm-hmm. . And it's a core tenant of the Sikh faith. So to me, always bringing a student to me, it, it, it creates this sense of humility. You know, I love, I actually love being wrong. I, I mean, I always, I have this core principle that says like, strong values loosely held because mm-hmm. , I love that. I wanna, you know, I, I have strong values. I'm opinionated, but I also love to continually learn and be wrong so that I can like change my frame of thinking. And I think having that student mentality gives you this sense of humility, uh, yeah. Knowing that you're, you're always learning. It never stops.
00:19:09
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
I love I love that you bring that up because I think part of, part of what it means to me to be a Sikh is to recognize that we are not the be all end all of the world. And, you know, a lot of spiritual philosophies teach, including Sikh philosophy, um, teach that, uh, the human ego is the root of all suffering. That the reason that we are upset and have difficulty in our lives, uh, is because we're so focused on ourselves and the challenges that we face. And so humility is the antidote to that. And, and being able to recognize that it isn't possible to know everything and that we are imperfect is actually in, in, in a, maybe in an unexpected way, at least in American culture. Um, it is liberating to not feel the pressure of always being right or always being perfect, and just embracing our, our fallibility, I mean, embracing our humanity.
And I think part of what that invites in, in a way that feels really foreign to what I see happening in the US today, uh, it invites a sense of empathy for others where we are no longer holding them to a standard of perfection. And so when other people mess up, it's cool, and it's fine and it's normal and it's something we can accept rather than constantly judging people for their mistakes or aspects we disagree with and so on. And so, as I look at how we're falling apart as a country and how difficult it is to get along with one another, I think this, this point about being humble and really embracing our own imperfection creates an opportunity for us to, to seek out the best in one another too.
00:21:01
Raquel Baldelomar
What do you think Americans that don't identify in Sikh religion, what can they learn from the Sikh faith to improve themselves?
00:21:16
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Yeah. There's, there's a lot
, there's, there's a lot within, I, I think spiritual philosophies across the globe that, that we could learn from. Um, one of them, and I think this is not exclusive to Sikh teachings, but it's, it's certainly the foundation of Sikh teachings, um, is the starting place of how we see who we are in this world. And, and maybe, maybe the way to say it is that in Western philosophy, we often start with the self, right? Decarte says, I think therefore I am mm-hmm. . And in many spiritual traditions, we actually start with our interconnectedness. So it's not about I, it's about us. It's about we and that third person plural approach, which is about more than the self, which is about all of us together. It just creates a different dynamic for how we see one another. And, and I think what I really love about Sikh teachings and what I think it could offer us to, if you're asking me today, like what are the biggest challenges today and how do we deal with those? I think if we could start from this core teaching of oneness, interconnectedness in, in our tradition, we call it Ek Onkar.
If we can begin with a place of our shared humanity, then the aspects that make us different, you know, our diversity is no longer threatening, but it becomes a celebration of who we are. We, we can really come to enjoy the differences that we all inherit and that we embody, uh, because they are manifestations of that oneness.
00:22:59
Raquel Baldelomar
This concept between of, of interconnectedness of what you talk about, interconnectedness and selflessness, that's a big concept that you talk about as a core tenant of the Sikh faith. And I want to mirror that against the concept of individualism and self-interest. How do you think we can seek out interconnectedness versus focusing on our own self-interest at times mm-hmm.
, or can we do both?
00:23:30
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Yeah. I mean, I I, I'll be honest and say I haven't, I haven't figured out the, the answer here. Um, part of the challenge is we live in a society and in a world, um, that requires us to have self-interest, um, to, uh, to exist we don't, but to survive and thrive in this country, in this context, uh, self-interest is really important. And I think, you know, one of the teachings that I try and live by in Sikh philosophy is that self-interest does not mean you don't take care of yourself. I'll, I'll sort of go into this a little bit because it was really hard for me to understand this when I did, but when I got it, it sort of changed my life. Um, the teaching in psych philosophy is that we all have the same light. Everyone is inherently equal and divine. The hard part for me was not seeing that light in everyone else.
The hard part for me was seeing it in myself. And so one of my challenges was to be humble in a context of interconnectedness. I was just constantly denigrating myself. Like, I would be like, oh, I'm not as important as other people. And I thought that's what humility was. And then I came across CS Lewis's quote, uh, about humility, which really helped me. Um, he said, uh, humility is not thinking less about yourself, it's about thinking of yourself less. And, and that moved me from an approach of self-deprecation, right? Saying that I'm not as good as everyone to saying, oh, I'm as good as everyone, but actually I'm not any better than anyone either. In our tradition, our founder Guru Nanak says, um, he says it in this way. He says, Hum Nahi Changey Bura Nahi Koi. I'm not good. But also no one else is bad. Like we're all just, we're all just even.
And I think that outlook, both from CS Lewis and from Guru Nanak, um, helped me get to this point that overrides our cultural norms of hierarchy and supremacy where we're constantly trying to say who's better and who's worse. And from CS Lewis and from Guru Nanak, the point is actually that's the wrong question, right? Get out of that mode of thinking and really find an evenness to your life. And I think it's, when I started to uncover that aspect, I really started to understand what it means to balance the self-interest alongside the selflessness. Right? The, the ultimate point is it's all even. And if you can learn to live that way, then you can find that equi poise in your life.
00:26:20
Raquel Baldelomar
A life principle of mine is that life is competition. Life is a jungle. The Darwinian principle of survival of the fittest applies in so many different areas of life. So the, you know, balancing that tension of like the interconnectedness with self-interest really is, is, you know, is a struggle I think for a lot of people, you know, who want to be interconnected, but also know they have to focus on themselves to survive and thrive.
00:26:52
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Mm-hmm.
. Yeah. It's so funny. You know, I have these young kids, a four year old and a six year old, and sometimes trying to figure out how to understand these, what we make really complicated ideas is most effective when you can distill it for your, for your kids mm-hmm. . And so I'm, I'm taking what you're saying and thinking about, oh, well, how would I talk to my kids about this? Mm-hmm. . And I think for me, what you're describing is true, and also what I'm describing true. And there, there's a tension here. And so how do, how do you live in that tension? Like how do you find the balance? And, and I think part of the answer is understanding that ambition is not a bad thing. Um, that competition is not a bad thing. Um, but not doing it in a way where anyone is seen as better or worse where there's any sort of dehumanization involved in the process.
And so what does that look like? I think when I talk to my four year old, I mean, it's really simple, right? It's, you do your best, you do your best with what you have, and, and you make good of what you can. And, and I think that to me is what survival looks like. I think that's what competition looks like. I think that's what ambition is, when it's brought in a healthy way. I think when it's unhealthy, it's what we see today, which is hierarchy, supremacy, imperialism, take down so you can go up, right? That's what we see a lot of.
00:28:18
Raquel Baldelomar
And where does capitalism fit in within the Sikh faith? Can you have ethical capitalism in Sikh faith?
00:28:27
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
It's not something we talk about specifically in our tradition. I mean, there's no rules on it. I, I think there are traditions we have that essentially say a system in which some people get advantage while others are disadvantaged. Uh, is un is unethical, is unfair, is inequitable. Uh, and so it doesn't really jive with the principles of Sikh philosophy. Um, I I, that doesn't mean that Sikhs don't make it work for them. Plenty of them do. Uh, I live in a capitalist society. I participate as much as anyone. So like, these are like the, I don't know, paradoxes or the conflicts that, that we all live into, um, the contradictions that inhabit us all. Um, but, but part of what I would say is if, if I, as a Sikh was to de design a system, um, based on my understanding of Sikh teachings, it would look very different from what we have today because it would not be producing such inequities, which I don't think are consistent with our values.
00:29:36
Raquel Baldelomar
Let's talk about what that system would look like.
00:29:39
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Oh, man. , it's a, it's a heavy question.
00:29:41
Raquel Baldelomar
You did a, uh, you did a whole dissertation on like, on, you know, in, at, uh, Harvard Divinity School in Columbia on like early sikh techs Yeah. And social justice actually.
00:29:52
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Yeah. Thank you. I mean, it's, it's so cool that you have done the research. So, um, thanks for being the one person in the world who's read my dissertation , or at least knows of it. Um, yeah. You know, part of what, what I think about a lot and, and maybe I can't design an economic system for the world that's inspired by Sikh philosophy. What I, what I can say is what I learned through my research and, and also through my attempts to live as a Sikh, um, what feels really different about this tradition that I find really attractive is that it, it offers us some model that insists that we work on ourselves internally, spiritually, and work to cultivate our ethical selves, while also insisting that we work on the world externally through service and justice. And that to be a true Sikh, we use this term Sant Sipahi Saint Soldier, uh, and every Sikh is expected to live as a saint soldier. And that means you try to be a saint, and then you're also out serving the world at the same time. And you, that's beautiful. You can never take those things apart.
00:31:13
Raquel Baldelomar
That's beautiful. So on one hand you're a saint, and another hand you're a soldier.
00:31:18
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Yeah. Yeah. And it's, it's an idea that comes up in so many different ways in our tradition. We have a lot of vocabulary around it, but that the essence of it is really simple. And again, like the way that I talk to my girls about it is, you be the best person you can be and you take whatever privileges you have and you serve the people around you mm-hmm.
so that they can have less suffering and have more happiness. It's super simple, but it's such a profound way to live, live your
00:31:41
Raquel Baldelomar
Life. It really is. It really is. And how would you say that the sick faith relates to the, so you, you wrote about social justice and sick faith, you know, years ago, way before the Black Lives Matter movement mm-hmm.
, you know, happened. How do you see parallels of what you wrote now, what's happening with social justice in opposed George Floyd world?
00:32:06
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Yeah, I mean, there, there are two things I'd want to say here. I mean, I think one is what, what I learned through Sikh philosophy, if you take this core principle of oneness mm-hmm.
, gar as we call it mm-hmm. , and you extend it out, what then happens, or in, in, in a, in an ideal case, what happen is that you, that feeling of oneness translates into a love for the world cuz you feel connected to it and that love moves you into, and that's service. And this is what Cornell West means, uh, when he says justice is what love looks like in public. Like, it's just this natural progression from a sense of connectedness to love to service. And I love that model. Like it's, for me, Ben, an answer to the question of how do you defend against burnout in activism, right? Like, we're all frustrated, we're all outraged, we're all angry, but if that's our only fuel for dealing with the problems of the world, like we can only last so long, but love as the source provides something different and it's more sustainable and nourishing and long lasting. And so that's, that's part of what I'm seeing from my tradition that I would love to bring forward into this context right now, which is to say like, yes, keep fighting against injustice. If you can infuse love into your activism, that could change the game.
00:33:40
Raquel Baldelomar
Yeah. You talk about in the book using love to fight hate
00:33:43
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
00:33:44
Raquel Baldelomar
Mm-hmm.
. And that's kind of what part of what you, you think can be done.
00:33:48
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Yeah. And you know, my experiences and, and this is something I've learned through dealing with the hate that comes my way through racism. Mm-hmm.
, it's not just about how we can help make the world a better place, it's also a spiritual practice that helps us reduce our own ego. Um, if we can break the cycle of hate externally, wonderful. Beautiful. And also we can do that internally so that we're not always feeling frustrated and angry and outraged. Like just imagine if we could transform those feelings into something positive so that every day when we're walking around and seeing people, we're not assuming the worst about them, we're actually assuming the best. That only comes with a spirit of love at the core.
00:34:33
Raquel Baldelomar
Right. It's not always just like looking at the worst in people or going back to what you're saying, like some people just are, they don't know and, and they're asking questions. Mm-hmm.
mm-hmm. . But, you know, there is, you talk about in the book there that you can either ignore or agitate mm-hmm. in dealing with racism and ignoring is an easy way, but agitating is the other side of it. And, and especially fighting aggressive racism. So, you know, when you talk about in interconnectedness and love and all of this ways to fight racism, when do you need to go to the other side of using, you know, fighting aggression with aggression?
00:35:17
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Yeah. I, I appreciate, you know, a lot of, a lot of people struggle with this and, and I have too, and I still do. Um, but I'm, I'm gonna go back to, to dad mode for a second. Okay. You know, my, my kids mess up mm-hmm.
, and in a lot of instances, in most instances at their young age, the way to deal with their mistakes is to show them affection and love and work through it with them. But there are also some instances where when they mess up, they need consequences. I need to hold them accountable. And that accountability is actually what helps them grow. And I'm not putting them in time out or withholding their dessert because I'm angry. I'm, I'm doing it out of love cuz I want them to learn. And I think that model is actually something we all know and we can learn to apply to situations of difficulty.
Right. There is a way to use force in context when it's necessary, uh, that is actually inspired by love, a love for humanity, love for the person that you're actually holding accountable. And it doesn't have to be nasty and it doesn't have to be hateful. It can be love inspired with the inspiration that I want to make this person better. I wanna make this world better. And so that to me is the way that I try and think about those really difficult moments where I want to stay strong, where I wanna hold my ground, um, and I, and I wanna hold someone accountable. Uh, but it, but it requires some real clarity of what that looks like.
00:36:57
Raquel Baldelomar
And it also just requires you to be very emotionally centered too, and not mm-hmm.
, I mean, cuz when you're attacked, you know, and maybe it's, it's it's very easy to just, you know, use your emotional, you know, just use your emotions to try to attack. So it requires understanding when do I use love, when do I, you know, try to just use humor versus when do I need to really hold someone accountable in a serious
00:37:25
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Way. Yeah. I love that you say that because it, you're just reminding me of when I was a kid, I would get so angry when people would say stuff to me. I mean, they'd say something racist and I would be, I would take it so personally mm-hmm.
and I'd be like, what, what did I do wrong? Right. And part of what I learned is actually, it's not personal. Like I didn't do anything wrong in most cases when people are being racist and, and to take the personal out of those attacks is enabled me to, to take the emotion, the emotional response out of those attacks. And that is the calm that's required to be able to, in those situations, have a clear head about how am I going to deal with this in a way that orients us towards justice as opposed to more anger and difficulty. Yeah.
00:38:16
Raquel Baldelomar
I mean, and it's, it's the idea of like the intellectual concepts of what it means to be a Sikh, what it means to have these Sikh values versus dealing in the real world and just this chaos Yeah. A jungle of the world and people who have no desire to follow any of those practices, but how do you engage with them in a way that is that, that states true to who you are as a person.
00:38:45
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Mm-hmm.
. Mm-hmm. . Exactly. Exactly.
00:38:47
Raquel Baldelomar
For me, meditation has always been a big part of my life. And it's a way that I, I think of meditation as like a way for achieving equanimity in my life and, you know, a way of dealing with just all of the chaos of the world. Um, so I try to meditate every day for, you know, at least 30 minutes. And that to me gives me that, that sense of equilibrium mm-hmm.
so that I can go and, you know, at every, you know, whatever moment, whatever's happening, I can choose, how do I wanna deal with this? Whether I need to deal with it in a, you know, soft, humorous way, or I need to be a little bit more aggressive, pushy way, you know mm-hmm. mm-hmm. . And, um, that has helped me. What would you say has helped you try to get to that state of mind? And is there anything in the Sikh teachings that you, you can learn from reader, people can learn from, so that they can come to the world, you know, in a state of equanimity?
00:39:48
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Yeah, yeah. There, so there's, there, there's a lot that I could offer from, from Sikh teachings. Not, not just my own, but I'll say, you know, to your point about meditation, um, I believe that each person has their own mechanisms and we can develop them. And, and what I'll share is, for me, the biggest source of balance actually comes from running.
00:40:12
Raquel Baldelomar
Running.
00:40:13
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Yeah. Really. And yeah. And it's, it's, yeah. You know, I live in New York City, Uhhuh
. I work, I have young kids.
00:40:20
Raquel Baldelomar
How often do you run?
00:40:21
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Uh, pretty much daily. Really?
00:40:23
Raquel Baldelomar
How many miles?
00:40:24
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Um, I try and do at least three or four every day.
00:40:27
Raquel Baldelomar
That's great. I love that.
00:40:27
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
times more,
00:40:27
Raquel Baldelomar
But it's how, like what many, how minute miles do you do?
00:40:30
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Uh, now Uhhuh , now I'm slow. I'm like nine minutes. That's great.
00:40:35
Raquel Baldelomar
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's wonderful. I'm a nine minute mile too.
00:40:38
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Awesome. Okay. So we go up for run sometimes love running. Yeah. But it, it's like, okay, so you'll understand cuz you live in LA Yeah. And you have a similar experience, like life is hectic. Yes, yes. There's always something going on and movement. Yeah. Like 30 minutes outta the house and just like in my own head space mm-hmm.
, um, and usually without headphones or music, sometimes I'll, I'll bring them along,
00:40:58
Raquel Baldelomar
But really, so you use it without music. You, you, you like running without music.
00:41:01
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Nowadays, like since the kids were born. Really? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's my, like, don't, don't let anything disturb nice. Uh, or distract me. Um, but it is, it is to, to your point, like similar to, it's like meditative for me mm-hmm.
where it's an escape from the busyness. And a time for me to just connect with myself. Fine. Calm, and I'll, I'll tell you, I just feel so connected and calm when I finish my run. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And then, you know, the busyness starts again. So I'm not, you know, pretending like everything's perfect, but it, it creates the conditions I think for
00:41:36
Raquel Baldelomar
It's huge
00:41:37
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
For just balance
00:41:39
Raquel Baldelomar
Yeah. I, I totally agree. And, and as a runner too, you can totally appreciate that runner's high, you know, it's like nature's drug that, you know, the nature's drug that you can only get from running and I absolutely love it. Yeah. Yeah. So I think of it, of running as like just a defrag for my brain. Mm-hmm.
. Mm-hmm. . It's nice way to describe it. It's a great way of just clearing out, you know, just, I don't even think about anything. It just, you don't, you know, you don't think about anything, but you just run and Yeah. It's wonderful. That's interesting. So when you, you don't use music though? I use music. Cause music kind of helps me just get to that flow state
00:42:13
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
It depends on, on the type of running. Okay. Like when I'm training for marathons and it's a super long
00:42:16
Raquel Baldelomar
Run. And so you do even marathons. That's really,
00:42:18
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
I do marathons too. Yeah. Yeah. That's great. Yeah, exactly. So
00:42:20
Raquel Baldelomar
How many marathons have you done?
00:42:22
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Um, six. Wow. I think seven. Yeah. Really? Something like that. Yeah. I haven't done one in a few years since the second daughter was born and I signed up for marathon this year. So I'll, I'm, I'm in training now.
00:42:33
Raquel Baldelomar
Is it, is it the New York marathon? The
00:42:35
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
New York, yeah. That's great. Yeah. Yeah. It's very fun.
00:42:37
Raquel Baldelomar
Well, that is a great way of just like, your way of, uh, I think I, I I think that's great. Meditation and physical exercise is, is so important.
00:42:47
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Yeah. And I'll say, you know, to take it back to your question, that's also part of this Sikh philosophy mm-hmm.
that like, your mind is not disconnected from your body. Mm-hmm. is not disconnected from your heart. And so physical practice is actually really important to living in this world. Like your body is your container. Yeah. And you ought to take care of it. So I I I do, I do find that to be a nice connection in, in terms of practice.
00:43:13
Raquel Baldelomar
So you're a father now. Mm-hmm.
two kids. Mm-hmm. , how old are they?
00:43:18
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Uh, four and almost seven. Four
00:43:20
Raquel Baldelomar
And seven. They're both girls. Both
00:43:21
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Girls.
00:43:22
Raquel Baldelomar
Oh, that's great.
00:43:23
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Yeah. They're good kids. They're, it's scary in this world. Um, but the, one of the scary things I'll, I'll share with you that I've been thinking about the last couple of weeks. My four-year-old is starting kindergarten next year. Uhhuh
. And so I'm going down the slippery slope in my head of, well, if she's in kindergarten, she may as well be in middle school, then she's gonna be in high school. , she's off to college. I've already lost her.
00:43:43
Raquel Baldelomar
Exactly.
00:43:44
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
So I'm already sad about it. .
00:43:47
Raquel Baldelomar
She's gonna start dating at some point.
00:43:49
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Exactly. Exactly. Yeah.
00:43:50
Raquel Baldelomar
You're like, oh my goodness, I don't want, you wanna know about these things.
how do you, knowing what you went through, like let's, you know, you went through as an 11 year old and, you know, being called a terrorist at 11 years old mm-hmm. like, and seeing now being a father to these young girls that you have, are you trying to do something to help them navigate the world's, you know, when they encounter racism, they encounter struggles. Is there anything you're trying to do to teach them so that they have that sense of self that's very strong at a very young age mm-hmm. when people try to knock them down? Cuz I'm sure that, you know, that happened to you a lot and
00:44:32
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Mm-hmm.
. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. I mean, absolutely. My wife and I talk about this a lot, and there there are many, um, aspects, you know, part of it is we want to teach them our culture mm-hmm. , um, our language, our tradition. And so we're very intentional about that. But in, in terms of what's most important, it's actually equipping them with the frameworks and the values so that they're ready to meet each moment. And it's, it's hard at this age, right? They're so young mm-hmm. like, what is it? But also that feels like a real opportunity to create a strong foundation. And so I'll tell you one of, one of the, one of the things I've been thinking about recently as a parent is how do I give to my kids what I struggled with at that age? And that is to be confident in who you are as a person, knowing that other people see something very different.
Right. Like in my head growing up, I was American. I also saw myself as somebody who was loving, caring, progressive. Mm-hmm. , I mean like all these things that define me. And people would see my turban and be like, oh, that guy's close-minded and misogynistic and, and whatever homophobic, like whatever assumptions they would have. Mm-hmm. . So it was so weird to live in this world where I saw myself one way and people saw me very differently, but I know all of us deal with that in some way. My girls will deal with that too. And so how do you instill the confidence in kids so that they're not so wrapped up in other people's perceptions of them? They don't feel like they need external validation to feel their own self-worth. And so that, that's something that my wife and I have been talking about, uh, as, as really important for, especially for girls growing up here.
00:46:26
Raquel Baldelomar
Yeah. And do you talk about that in a way of like letting them know, listen, people are going to say mean things about you, maybe, you know, for a boy it's a turban mm-hmm.
, you know, for a young Sikh girl, what would that be? Is there something comparable where people would say something mean about anything? Their brown skin or,
00:46:45
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Yeah, it's that, I mean, the sad thing about kids is they'll find anything that's exactly typical. I mean, that's true for adults too.
00:46:51
Raquel Baldelomar
Anything that's different, you know.
00:46:52
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Anything that's different. And so there are a few interesting things we've been talking to them about recently. One is, um, just because somebody says something that doesn't make it true mm-hmm.
. Um, and so that's, that's, you know, a very basic concept for kids to recognize truth and falsehood. Um, but also this comes true in like understanding personal character as well. And the, the other part of it is, and this has been a really big one for us, um, instilling in them that, you know, in your heart who you are Yeah. And, and trying to live into that. And so we'll actually have language for them and, and try and reinforce for them is that, is that who you are in your heart? Is that what makes you happy? Is that what makes your heart happy? Um, and that's, I mean, I think that's in some ways, particular to this question of helping people, including ourselves, see who we truly are and find authenticity. Uh, but it's also a real, I mean, for me, it's become a tool for asking myself when I, is my behavior matching up with who I aspire to be. Mm-hmm. , we, we all have these gaps. I mean, it's part of what makes us human. Uh, but it's been funny and annoying. teaching this to them has also made me push myself, uh, in, in ways that I hadn't before.
00:48:08
Raquel Baldelomar
Yeah. And it's also, you know, re reminding them that even when, you know, teachers, people of authority tell them something that, you know, someone they respect someone, an adult tells you things that they must, you know, you must think, you must think, oh, that's true. Mm-hmm.
mm-hmm. when it's not. And I remember a passage in your book, you talked about how there was, you were playing soccer and like some coach said, he can't play. Tell me somewhere where he can't play. I mean, so some position of authority was saying, you can't play because you're wearing a turban. Mm-hmm. And, and, uh, I love this, I love the story of like a coach from your team, actually. He said, show me in writing where he can play. Yeah. And he,
00:48:50
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
He just took out the whiteboard and wrote, he can play. Yeah. He can play
00:48:53
Raquel Baldelomar
. So I love to see that. But, and also, you know, if that hadn't happened, if he ha you know, he wouldn't have, he didn't stand up, you know, to be told as a young kid that you can't play, you must, you know, it must get ingrained in your head. You know, it just, it gets beaten down so many times.
00:49:10
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
So. Yeah. It's such a good point. I mean, I hadn't thought about it this way, but I, but I really like what you're saying. It's, it's almost, um, giving, giving people the confidence to live into resistance. Yeah. Right. Like, there, there are things in my life where I've been clear about my principles, even at a young age mm-hmm.
, right? Like, kids know what their values are. Um, and, and I've been challenged by authority figures and, and it's not to say like somebody was coming in and being like, go do this hateful thing, but like, things that they didn't necessarily realize were real challenges mm-hmm. to what I found to be important. Um, and, and feeling empowered to stand up and know that if I, if I was clear about what those were, then the people around me who knew me, including my family, including my friends, would have my back.
00:49:58
Raquel Baldelomar
Right. And like, how are you teaching your daughters to fight resistance, fight, like the aggressive forms of racism? Are you teaching them to fight resistance?
00:50:08
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
We, we are. Um, it's, you know, the way I think about it as, as I think about any kind of education and especially parenting, is, uh, scaffolding. So start with aspects that are age appropriate. Give them mm-hmm.
real senses of how the world is without overdoing it, without, you know, overwhelming them. Um, but being honest about it. I mean, that's really, I think that's really important. Uh, we talk a lot about unfairness in our house and not as in, um, whining about something's not fair to me because I didn't get enough ice cream or whatever. It's, it's more like, what, what do we get to have that other people don't get to have? Mm-hmm. I mean, it's a way of talking about privilege. Mm-hmm. Um, and, and thinking about, well, if we get to have those things and other people don't, why, where does that come from?
And also, what is our responsibility to them? And I think that opens up a different kind of conversation that's not overly focused on politics or politicized sort of language. Um, but then now my seven year old is starting to make observations around what kinds of people get to have things that other people don't get to have. Mm-hmm. . And, and so we're sort of at easing into that as she's ready. The other, the other thing that I think is super interesting in this regard is that, you know, the science tells us that kids are noticing race from a, from the six months old. And so they are already, it's not that they have judgments about race, but they're noticing skin color at that age. And they're starting to demonstrate preferences really soon after that. And so part of what is really important to me is to a, um, instill in my kids that there is no hierarchy on the basis of race. Um, and, and to ensure that they understand the sort of equality in everyone. And, and the way we talk about it is that God lives in everyone equally. God is in everyone's heart. Um, but then to build from there, now we're starting to talk about how some people don't get to have things on the basis of their race. And again, this is sort of tied to what I was just saying. My my older daughter is noticing that, and that's creating conversations around racism and racial injustice.
00:52:33
Raquel Baldelomar
Right. And I mean, it's something you see a lot in these small, constant non-violent aggressions. You know, you'd mentioned that even like at, you know, TSA going through TSA checkout lines, just the constant non-violent aggressions can, can really demoralize a person. It can, it's almost dehumanizing in a sense. And how can you try to address that in a way that is, that that matches the non-violent aggression on their part, but do it in a way that's loving. And, and how do you teach people from a young age to adults on how to do that when let's say another brown-skinned turban wearing young man is constantly, you know, is going through tsa, is constantly being checked on. It must create this sense of just loss of morale, loss of just the burnout too. Yeah. And then almost like, is there something wrong with me? Even though that person might not think that it's just, it's that constant non-violent aggression can be really hard on someone, so
00:53:35
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Yeah. Yeah. Totally. And I mean, there's, there's three different ways I could think about the TSA piece, right? Like the personal impact on me mm-hmm.
, um, and how frustrating it is, how embarrassing it is, what it signals to me about being a second class citizen in this country. Um, then there's the systemic level. Like what is my responsibility to change the system so that we have fair treatment for people who are different. But now one of the things I think about when I travel with my kids is what kinds of signals are they getting when they're watching me be racially profiled? And you know, on the one hand, it creates opportunities for conversation. They'll ask and they do. Um, why do you have to go in that other line? What are they doing? Why you, why no, why not anyone else? Like, so, so it creates opportunities for conversation. Uh, but it's also, um, very painful to realize that the signals that my daughters are getting about their dad is actually going to create distance. Like they're going to be embarrassed of me or to be with me one day. And I, I hate that. Like, I don't know how to deal with that. I try not to think about it, but that's a tough one to live with, that my own government is creating systems that's going to make my kids ashamed of their dad. Like that's hard.
00:55:02
Raquel Baldelomar
Yeah. And it happens with so many families,
00:55:06
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
So, so many families, so many and all for all different
00:55:08
Raquel Baldelomar
Reasons. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. You see that and it's, you know, I, I haven't, I don't even know how to address it. I mean, it, it's such a hard, when it's the sy, you know, it's systems mm-hmm.
that, you know, are bringing that. And, you know, I, I remember seeing a post that you had posted on Instagram about a, how a family, you know, had a, a family of young boys, a sick family, had young boys who were riding, you know, they wanted to ride a helmet. They wanted, they wanted to ride a bicycle mm-hmm. , but they couldn't have a helmet to, um, you know, that fit their head. I mean, and I look at that as like, just almost like, as a form of institutional racism where like the, the helmet industry doesn't have secure fitting helmets for young kids riding bicycles.
00:55:55
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting. I mean, it, it is there, there's so many ways in which what we have considered normative for so long in this country leaves out all sorts of people. And in this particular example, you're giving, um, it's boys who wear turbans mm-hmm.
. But there are so many other ways in which I, or people I know have been excluded. Not necessarily intentionally. Right. Like, it's just that nobody's, nobody's thought about it, thinking about us. Right. And, you know, there are, there are rules, like when I was growing up, for example, my older brother had to sit out a whole year of high school basketball because he wore a turban. Really? I, I had to petition the United States Soccer Federation to be able to play. I had to carry around a waiver. Like, I don't think people are sitting around making rules saying, how do we keep XYZ people from playing this sport? Mm-hmm. . Like, it's not that. But I, I think what really happens is when those people are making the rules, they're not accounting for the diversity that is all around our country, and they effectively leave people out. They don't intend to hurt people. But it's really hurtful.
00:57:07
Raquel Baldelomar
I just, I mean, I way I look at it is like I, I grew up in Bolivia the first 10 years of my life. Then I, you know, came to the United States with my mom, who was raised by a single mom for, you know, from me and my four younger brothers. So I learned very early on that it's like, I was just like, I just have to fight harder than everybody else.
00:57:24
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Totally.
00:57:25
Raquel Baldelomar
You know, I just have to fight harder if I want, you know, anything, I have to do it for myself. So I had to develop this like self-reliance at a very, very young age. Yeah. And fortunately I was, um, you know, I had loving mother, I had loving grandparents. Um, I had, you know, I, I was, I had a loving home where I could develop that sense. I had that sense of self-confidence. I could go out in the world and basically fight for what I thought was right. Not everybody has that luxury of like a safe home environment to do that. Right. And it sounds like you did, it sounds like you actually also had a really loving home to, to be able to fight the injustice.
00:58:06
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
I did. And I had, I mean, a lot of advantages and privileges, even though I had some disadvantages. And, and I think that's true for a lot of us, but to your point, and, and this is spent a lot of time thinking on this, and I, I don't know if I have a solution, but just because you and I have been able to come out and fight with that spirit for ourselves and for the people we care about, that doesn't make, that, doesn't make it fair. It doesn't, and it doesn't make the system fair. And so like, how do we change that so my kids don't have to do what I did or what others have done? And so it's, it's, I think about a lot for my kids, but like, how do we change these conditions ultimately?
00:58:49
Raquel Baldelomar
And so that you don't have to always, because that makes you tired. I mean, then when you have to fight injustice and racism or, you know, something else, it's, it's just that energy gets expended so you don't have energy to focus so much on something else that might be really important to you. Right.
00:59:04
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Yeah. And the other question is, what, what if we could just enjoy life mm-hmm.
like that, wouldn't that be great? So, um, yeah, no, it's, and not have to worry about some of these
00:59:13
Raquel Baldelomar
Other aspects. It's like, you know, you should be able to enjoy life. I mean, that's is a right for everybody. Mm-hmm.
. Mm-hmm. . So speaking of enjoying life, how are you and your wife enjoying parenthood while also maintaining just your own, just coupleship relationship as a couple?
00:59:31
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Oh, thanks for asking. Um, so what you should know is my wife is way smarter than me. . So
00:59:39
Raquel Baldelomar
You picked a good wife then,
00:59:41
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
? Well, not really. You were smart. I lose, I, we've been married like 15 years. I haven't won an argument ever. . So,
00:59:47
Raquel Baldelomar
I mean, I think I remember you met her in Boston, right? I met her in Boston. Right, right. Yeah. Yeah. You're studying in Boston.
00:59:52
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Yeah. You know, our, our kids are still at an age where they like us. Mm-hmm.
. So we, and they're, and they're super cute. So , we do a lot of family stuff together.
01:00:01
Raquel Baldelomar
That's So you've been married 15 years,
01:00:02
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
You said? Um, yeah, 15. I think it's Okay, great. Going on 16. Uhhuh
.
01:00:06
Raquel Baldelomar
Wonderful.
01:00:06
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
So, yeah. Um, so it's a lot of kids stuff these days, I think. Um, because they were so young during the pandemic, we got super attached to them. Oh, good. In like a good way. I, I recognize it's unhealthy. Um, but I also am like, well
01:00:22
Raquel Baldelomar
Enjoy it now. Exactly. Cause once they get 14 fifteens, they're gonna spend more time with our friends Exactly. And boys. That's
01:00:29
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
What it's like. I know. I'm untouched. I'll let it go when they wanna let me go.
01:00:33
Raquel Baldelomar
Exactly. So
01:00:34
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Enjoy it. It's fun. Um, and then the other thing that we, I mean, we we're both readers, so we, we like reading together. Uh, we're both sports fans, so she'll do, she'll watch sports with me. Um, although we have different football teams, so we butt heads on that one. But aside from that, we're good.
01:00:48
Raquel Baldelomar
What's your football team and what's hers?
01:00:50
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Um, cowboys from Texas. Oh,
01:00:51
Raquel Baldelomar
Of course. Yeah.
01:00:52
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
And she's from Buffalo, so she's a big ghost fan. .
01:00:55
Raquel Baldelomar
Um, oh, they just got out, right?
01:00:57
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
They just got out. We went, we went to Buffalo. We drove to Buffalo with the kids. You did great. Stood in the cold. It was ridiculous. Um, but it's fun. Um, and the other thing we've like, since the pandemic has eased up a bit, we've been going to a lot of shows in New York again. Nice. So, and before it would be just the two of us, but now we get to take the kids to opera and ballet and Broadway and all that. So that's really fun.
01:01:21
Raquel Baldelomar
Do you, sports games, do you make time for just the two of you? Um, you know, or do you, is it always the you and the kids Now?
01:01:29
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
We do, but it's very hard. Like rarely. We, we say every week we'll say, we'll do it once a week and, um, it effectively is like once a month.
01:01:38
Raquel Baldelomar
Once a month. Okay.
01:01:39
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
So we enjoy it when we do it, but yeah. Time is hard.
01:01:41
Raquel Baldelomar
Yeah. Yeah. With having kids, do you have family members nearby at all or?
01:01:45
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
We have some, yeah. That's nice.
01:01:46
Raquel Baldelomar
So you can that can help with that.
01:01:48
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Yeah. Well, yeah. We, we tend to, like with the family, we'll just hang out all together. Nice. Instead of using them to as babysitters. Oh,
01:01:57
Raquel Baldelomar
Okay. Good. Well, that's nice. Yeah. So what do you think is a secret to like a happy marriage? Being married for 15 years?
01:02:03
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Oh, man, that's a good question. Um,
01:02:06
Raquel Baldelomar
Let her win every argument.
01:02:07
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
. I don't let her, she, she just crushes me. She does it. Yeah, exactly. And every time I'm like, damn, I should have thought of that. . Um, what is it? I don't, I don't know what the secret is. I mean, I think, um, yeah, no, nothing secret. Probably it's just like maintaining effort. I think effort is it.
01:02:27
Raquel Baldelomar
Putting in the work. Really. Yeah. Putting in the work for, so how do you make effort would you say? Do, do you try to be romantic? Do you try to like, do things for her? And what does she try to do for you?
01:02:37
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Everything? I mean, I feel like there's so much effort for both of us. Like maybe it's how old our kids are, but it's like, um, I mean, I guess it's like the thoughtfulness behind effort. Yeah. So like, what, what is, maybe this isn't the best way to think about it, but this is, this has been driving a lot of my behavior recently. What could I do? What could I take care of that she, that would free her up so she wouldn't have to take care of it? That's great. And like, it's almost backwards, but it's like, you know, kids go to bed, dishes aren't done. Mm-hmm.
like, in my head, I'm like, oh, if I don't do this, then she's gonna get stuck. And so let me free her up so she can enjoy her evening and I'll knock out the dishes. Things like that. So it's super simple. Um, but I find that when we are doing that for one another, then, then we're actually feeling the care. Yeah. Like, oh, they're thinking about me and they're being considerate and they want me to enjoy or whatever.
01:03:36
Raquel Baldelomar
Those acts of service are really important.
01:03:38
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Yeah. And they can be tiny. Mm-hmm.
like doing the dishes is what, five minutes? Yeah. But yeah, it goes a long way.
01:03:44
Raquel Baldelomar
But I also think having like shared common values, like, you know, you both like sports, enjoying that Yeah. Is important too. And having fun. I mean, having fun. Having fun. Cuz life is, so much of it is serious. Especially what you deal with in, in your work is, you know, it's very heavy. It's heavy. Very serious.
01:04:01
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
And she's a, she's a physician and a human rights researcher. Oh, is she? But she's either in the operating room or she is dealing with, you know, victims of torture. Yeah. Like, her work is intense. Wow. So,
01:04:13
Raquel Baldelomar
So you both have very heavy careers and you're both are working parents? We're both working, yeah. Both, both working parents and living in New York City. I mean, I, some, I I sometimes think that New York City is a, I think it's a harder place to have children than even LA
01:04:28
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
It's a tough place. I mean, it's good for a lot of reasons. Mm-hmm.
. But you, I mean, you were talking about jungles, like that's its
01:04:32
Raquel Baldelomar
Own jungle. Yeah, it
01:04:33
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Is. So yeah.
01:04:34
Raquel Baldelomar
How do you navigate that?
01:04:36
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Again, a lot of, a lot of effort. I mean, I, we love living there. Mm-hmm.
01:04:39
Raquel Baldelomar
, where do you live? What
01:04:40
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Part? On the Upper East side. Okay. Um, and we've been there for a long time, very close to our hospital. Um, but I, you know, one of the, I guess to your point about having fun, it's like you can either enjoy it or you can struggle. Yeah. And I think like life is going to be a struggle regardless. Yeah. Like where wherever you live, however you live,
01:05:03
Raquel Baldelomar
You have to almost enjoy the struggle, you know? Exactly. Exactly. You have to have to enjoy the suffering, not enjoy the suffering, but in find meaning through the suffering. Yeah. But then counterbalance that with just lightness and play and fun.
01:05:18
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Exactly. That's important. Exactly. I mean, it would make her life better if she thought I was funny. Like if she understood how funny I am. . But unfortunately she doesn't, she doesn't appreciate it enough. So yeah. That would make her life better.
01:05:31
Raquel Baldelomar
That's so good. . And I remember you mentioning in our, uh, in our pre-production call, this this mental health checkup, you, you, you had as a child. Mm-hmm.
01:05:43
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:05:44
Raquel Baldelomar
Uh, tell, tell, tell our viewers about this mental health and checkup and what, in the seven spheres of life.
01:05:48
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Yeah, it's, I mean, it's, it's funny to think about, uh, because I, I don't write about it in the book. I just brought it up when we were talking. Um, but we would, once a year, my, my parents would get us together, my mm-hmm.
, my three brothers and me. Um, and they would, they would do a, uh, an annual checkup and we would have seven spheres and we would have to rate ourselves one to 10, and it would be like emotional mm-hmm. , spiritual, mental, intellectual, like, you know, the different aspects of our life. And then we would,
01:06:20
Raquel Baldelomar
So as a 10 year old, you're having to like rate yourself on the intellectual sphere of your life.
01:06:26
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Oh my God. It was so annoying. versus
01:06:27
Raquel Baldelomar
Like the emotional sphere of your life. Yeah, exactly. Versus the spiritual sphere, I guess. What are the seven spheres again?
01:06:33
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Oh my God. I'll have to remember. Um, mental, spiritual, emotional, intellectual, um, physical. Um, there was one that was financial, which we didn't really do until we were older. And, um, relationships, I, I don't know where, where that, like what the word was for that, but it was, it was about a check on your relationships. Mm-hmm.
. Um, and I guess like, thinking about it now, I haven't really thought about it in a long time. Like, part of doing it at a young age was just getting it on our radar that these are different kinds of quotients that you should be reflecting on. Um, and as we got older, what would happen is we would draw these out. Like we, we would rate ourselves one to 10, and then we would actually have segments around a circle that we would fill in. Um, and then you could visualize where the imbalance was in your life. Like, you might be doing well in school, but you maybe weren't doing so well in your relationships mm-hmm. . And so that's where you need to invest more. Um, a lot of times I would be like on the physical side with sports, like, great. And my school stuff was not so great . And so I, I think that was like the real underlying purpose of the whole thing was like, do better at school.
01:07:56
Raquel Baldelomar
.
01:07:56
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
. But really, I mean, it was, it was a question about balance. Like, yeah, you're going to get all of these pieces in your life at all times, but if you're not intentional about them mm-hmm. , then you could really easily lose sight of them. So he is, I mean, in retrospect, it was a great exercise.
01:08:14
Raquel Baldelomar
So now as an adult, as a father of two, where of all those seven spheres, where is like the area where you think you need to like, work on the most now?
01:08:23
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Oh, man. Um, physical is definitely one. Really, like, I'm outta shape. I'm, yeah. I haven't, I've been running marathon in a few years.
01:08:37
Raquel Baldelomar
You still playing soccer,
01:08:38
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Playing basketball more now. Okay. I just started again. Okay. So pandemic, put a pause on that. Mm-hmm. But I'm, mm-hmm. I'm starting again. It's really fun. Uh, and I'm not in the shape I was before, so try to take it easy.
01:08:49
Raquel Baldelomar
And, and it also, we find that as we get older, you know, we just like, we, our bodies just don't recover. Oh, yeah,
01:08:56
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. That's true. Well, the good thing is I'm playing in a dad's league. Oh, you are?
kidding. So I'm like, yeah, I'm the youngest one there by far . And so we kind of like, take it easy on each other. It's really fun. Um, yeah, physical is definitely one. Um, relationships is another one that I feel like I'm, I'm weak right now. Again, uh, the combination of young kids in a pandemic mm-hmm. meant like for a few. And my wife is a physician working with Covid patients. So like, for a few years I was just like MIA, um, and now trying to reconnect with people is like, it's taken me a little effort to get the momentum back. And so the relationship piece feels like somewhere where I need to put more time.
01:09:37
Raquel Baldelomar
That's important. I mean, just having that balance across all of those different spheres in your life, it's such a challenge because some, you know, many times to get be be good at one area, it means, you know, sacrificing another area. Mm-hmm.
mm-hmm. . But knowing you know, how to best put the pieces in so that you can be balanced.
01:09:56
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Exactly.
01:09:56
Raquel Baldelomar
Is is so, so important. Exactly. Yeah. Do your parents, uh, are they still in San Antonio?
01:10:02
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
My parents are still in San Antonio. I don't think they'll ever leave. Um, they haven't gotten their season tickets back for the Spurs yet, so. Oh, they haven't. Hopeful they'll be good soon. . Um, but yeah, when, when the Spurs, when the Spurs are winning, we find ourselves in San Antonio a lot more often. And I have two brothers in Austin with
01:10:18
Raquel Baldelomar
Where are you in the line?
01:10:20
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
I'm number two. Okay.
01:10:21
Raquel Baldelomar
So you have a second. And where are your brothers?
01:10:23
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
I have an older and a younger brother in Austin. Uhhuh
. And then my youngest brother lives in Brooklyn, so near me in New York.
01:10:30
Raquel Baldelomar
Wonderful. I wanna end with just a few, uh, final questions that we ask all of our viewers. Um, what would you say are your top three healthiest habits?
01:10:44
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Top three healthiest habits? Yes. Um, the first one that's coming to mind is, um, I drink my coffee black now.
01:10:56
Raquel Baldelomar
You do? No cream. No cream or any sugar.
01:10:58
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Yeah. Yeah. So's good. That's a big, that's a good change. That's good. Um, I, I'm pretty solid with, um, my eating timing. Mm-hmm.
, like, I'll stop eating usually at 6:00 PM and won't start again until 10:00 AM So I have a
01:11:15
Raquel Baldelomar
Nice, so like a nice intermittent fasting.
01:11:17
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Yeah. That's pretty, pretty standard. Yep. Um, walking meetings. Oh, instead of sitting down for Yeah. Lunch or a coffee. We will, I'll tell someone. I mean, it's easy in New York, you can walk anywhere. So I'll say, let's, let's meet at this point and, or let's meet at Central Park. And
01:11:37
Raquel Baldelomar
I also think there's something about walking that almost like it makes the neurons of your brain just fire a little differently.
01:11:44
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
I feel that way too. Yeah. Like I, I feel like I'm so much more,
01:11:47
Raquel Baldelomar
I'm so much more intelligent , I feel like my IQ level goes up when I can, you know, talk and walk at the same time.
01:11:53
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
01:11:54
Raquel Baldelomar
That's great. I love walking
01:11:55
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Meetings. That's nice. It's a nice, yeah, it's a nice practice. I'm really enjoying that.
01:12:01
Raquel Baldelomar
I have a principal that says that part of balance is having healthy vices.
01:12:07
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Hmm.
01:12:08
Raquel Baldelomar
So what would you say are your top three healthy vices? And these are the things that are not necessarily good for you, but they bring you great joy.
01:12:21
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Okay. One is, every night before I go to bed, I have my NBA like league pass on. Okay. And I'll watch. Okay. At least 30 minutes of basketball. I'll probably be multitasking. Uhhuh
, I'll be doing dishes or
01:12:42
Raquel Baldelomar
01:12:42
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
You have a whatever at the same time. But, but watching basketball is a healthy vice. Um, what's another one? Uh, Friday mornings, uh, chocolate croissant with the kids. Oh, that's, oh,
01:12:52
Raquel Baldelomar
Really? So that's like a ritual, a nice, oh, I love that ritual. So that's a nice one. Yeah. That's nice. I'm sure they love those Friday mornings.
01:12:59
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Yeah. Oh, they, yeah. We, we, they, every morning I get it. Is it Friday? Do we get a croissant today? So, um, yeah, that's a nice one. And then we do movie nights. Movie nights. Yeah. Movie nights are Saturday nights. Pizza. That's great. Pizza and a movie with the kids. So that's also fun.
01:13:13
Raquel Baldelomar
Oh, that's great. It's important. And that's also nice too, because it's part of, even though you might consider it vices, which it's, you know, it's just, it's rituals, you know? Yeah. And having those rituals with families, so, so important.
01:13:26
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
That's when you said healthy vices. Yeah. Like the food rating is terrible. , but, but there's something, there's
01:13:31
Raquel Baldelomar
Something good about a relationship. There's really connecting. I know food is definitely a vice for me. I, I am, I'm a little too obsessed with it. What would you say are small things you do every single day to try to achieve balance? And I wanna try, uh, um, connect this with the, the sanscript term that I read where about Sahaj. Mm. Yeah. Where you talk about, you know, this, it's, it's being in a spiritual state. Yeah. So what are the small things you do every day to try to achieve that state of sahaj?
01:14:01
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Yeah. Thanks. Thanks for mentioning that. Um, so, so one is a, is a practice of gratitude. Mm-hmm.
, so reflecting on things that I'm grateful for that day, and it's, it goes up and down for me, but it's, it's really easy actually. Like, just think of three things every day that went well that you're happy about. Um, another one that I try and do, and this one can be easier or harder depending on the day, is to try and see the humanity in somebody that that I don't know. Um, and that's, to me, that's a practice and something I've really been working on, which is trying to feel love for people that I don't know, that I've never met, you know, who we would otherwise call a stranger. Mm-hmm. . Um, so that's, that's another one. Um, a third is, and this is actually quite meaningful for me. Every morning as I walk with the kids to school, uh, we recite the, the basic Sikh prayers, and so I'm teaching it to them, but we're also singing it together. So there's something really, I, I, I just really love that. And, and as we do it, we'll talk a little bit about the ideas and what they mean and how to practice them.
01:15:18
Raquel Baldelomar
That's beautiful. That's almost like a little somewhat of like a, a walking meditation with the kids.
01:15:25
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Yeah. I mean, like in the streets of New York and avoiding buses and taxis Exactly.
01:15:30
Raquel Baldelomar
While dealing with the reality, you know, having these beautiful, Sikh prayers while dealing with the realities of New York. That's
01:15:36
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Beautiful. Exactly.
01:15:38
Raquel Baldelomar
What would you say wealth means to you?
01:15:42
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Hmm. I think probably wisdom is the word I would use. Um, wealth of experience, uh, wealth of insight, but also something, something that we can gain ourselves, but also something we can inherit if we, if we're open to it.
01:16:03
Raquel Baldelomar
That's beautiful. And I also remember reading there's, and Sounds great. There's actually a term for wisdom, but then the practice of wisdom has its own term too. Mm-hmm.
01:16:15
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
. Yeah. Good memory. Yeah. Um, yeah. The, the word is [inaudible]. Yeah. And the idea is, you know, we can collect as much knowledge as we want. Knowledge doesn't really do anything for us. Right. It's only, it's only really the implementation of that, that becomes our wisdom.
01:16:32
Raquel Baldelomar
Yeah. That's really important. So always focusing too, just not just on how acquiring wisdom and acquiring the, the knowledge from these scholars, but then how can you actually practice that in daily life and the messiness.
01:16:48
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Yeah, exactly. Chaos. You know, it's, as a, as a parent, I think about it in a really simple way, which is, my kids know what the right thing to do is, but are they practicing the muscle to actually do the right thing? And, you know, I had my own experience, especially in high school. I knew the things that I was supposed to do, and most often I wasn't doing that. Mm-hmm.
. And like, I easily got off track. And so what does it look like for us to get ourselves on track? I think that that comes through practice, not through ideas. Mm-hmm.
01:17:18
Raquel Baldelomar
. Yeah. It's a muscle. It's like working out. It's like a, it's a constant practice. Mm-hmm. , what are the top three books you recommend you most often recommend?
01:17:29
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Uh, okay. Um, I recommend all kinds of books to all kinds of people. Um, based on this conversation there, there are two that I love that I think might, might fit you and your audience in particular. Um, The Power of Now, like Caroli mm-hmm.
, and, um, the Four Agreements Yep. Um, are two that I've found to be books that I can return to over and over again. And then the third one, which falls within that same kind of genre, although not as spiritually or oriented, and more on the practice side is, uh, maybe cliche at this point because it's been on the best seller list, I think for like two years. But James Clear is Atomic Habits.
01:18:16
Raquel Baldelomar
Atomic Habits.
01:18:17
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Atomic Habits.
01:18:18
Raquel Baldelomar
Never heard of that. Really?
01:18:19
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Great. It totally changed me as well. Wow. I mean, it's, it's, it is really practical approach to, you know, personal transformation through really small incremental changes. Wonderful. I really love that book.
01:18:34
Raquel Baldelomar
Well, another book you all can get is the Light We Give. This is a great
01:18:41
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Book. Thank you. You
01:18:42
Raquel Baldelomar
Can see like, all of like my notes, so like, I actually, oh my God. I know. This
01:18:46
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Is the biggest compliment you can give to a writer.
01:18:48
Raquel Baldelomar
Exactly. No, it's very good. I highly recommended Get it. When did it get, when did this come out?
01:18:55
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Um, July.
01:18:57
Raquel Baldelomar
July, mm-hmm.
. Okay. Mm-hmm. . So yeah. Highly recommended. It's a fabulous, fabulous book.
01:19:01
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Thank you.
01:19:02
Raquel Baldelomar
Okay, my last message, Simran, if you could put one message on a billboard to tell people how they can achieve a combination of health, wealth, and happiness at once, what would that be?
01:19:20
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Health, wealth, and happiness. Okay. There's, there's this message that comes from Sikh scripture that I share in the book at some point. I, I mean, I think it might be the one here. Um, in the original, it's [inaudible] and it means it's talking to the self. Hey, hey myself, you are the embodiment of light. Like you are light. All you have to do is recognize it. And, and I think that that would be the message that I would put on the billboard. Like, you are, you are divine, you are light, you are light. Start living that way.
01:20:03
Raquel Baldelomar
You are light. All you have to do is recognize it.
01:20:05
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Yeah. Live that way. It gets, again, very simple, but sometimes that's most profound.
01:20:10
Raquel Baldelomar
That's, that's the most, exactly. That's why it's, it's, it's in a simple, it's now living that you are light. Do something with it.
01:20:18
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Mm-hmm.
01:20:18
Raquel Baldelomar
. Mm-hmm. . Wonderful. Where can people find you on social media? Oh,
01:20:23
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Uh, I'm on Twitter way too much. Okay. My name's Simran on, on Twitter and then on all the other platforms. I'm Sikhprof. S i k h p r o f,
01:20:31
Raquel Baldelomar
Sikhprof.
01:20:32
Simran Jeet Singh, PhD
Okay. Sikhprof.
01:20:33
Raquel Baldelomar
Thank you for coming on our show of thank Thank you so much. To my viewers and my fans, thank you so much for watching. Thank you for supporting me. I read all of your dms, I read all of your comments. If you like this podcast, please click the like and subscribe button in the notification bells. It helps all the YouTube overlords promote this podcast to other people who are interested in balance. And I love you all. I love you all so, so much. Until next time.